wwp@yahoogroups.com:
devalVR option?
jeffrey 2005-Oct-06 09:33:00
On the subject of the "disaster" 32mb quicktime/itunes download....
Now that devalVR has a very decent 206k QTVR plugin, would it be
possible for users to have the choice of downloading this plugin? I
would imagine there are others like me, with a crappy gsm (or dialup)
connection, where a 32mb download is just never going to happen.
example of html code:
http://www.devalvr.com/instalacion/htmlcode.txt (replacing the filename).
Install the plugin here: http://ww.devalvr.com/install
The player: http://www.devalvr.com/descargas/dps/player.zip
I'm happy that his guy has given us a choice for playing our qtvr's,
it's just a question of whether it's possible to easily implement it
in an existing website.....
jeff
On 6 Oct 2005 08:11:24 -0000, #removed# <#removed#> wrote:
>
> There are 15 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
> From: "christian stehle" <#removed#>
> 2. Re: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
> From: Hans Nyberg <#removed#>
> 3. Re: optimal viewer size
> From: Richard Crowest <#removed#>
> 4. Re: Inside a Telescope
> From: "christian stehle" <#removed#>
> 5. Re: Inside a Telescope
> From: "gerardoant" <#removed#>
> 6. Re: Inside a Telescope; plus: please check my contribution
> From: "Richard Crowest" <#removed#>
> 7. Password Retrival
> From: "Bo" <#removed#>
> 8. Re: Inside a Telescope
> From: Bernhard Vogl <#removed#>
> 9. back again
> From: G. Donald Bain <#removed#>
> 10. Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
> From: yuval levy <#removed#>
> 11. Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
> From: Uri Cogan <#removed#>
> 12. Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
> From: Hans Nyberg <#removed#>
> 13. Re: Inside a Telescope
> From: "gerardoant" <#removed#>
> 14. Best of?
> From: "northwest_omnipresence" <#removed#>
> 15. Re: Best of?
> From: Thomas Mottl <#removed#>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 08:48:39 -0000
> From: "christian stehle" <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
>
> no.. I think it could be improved to become a true global experience.
>
> I think that everybody should have the option to have their own profile
> and image description in their own native language.
>
> And provide a download link of Quicktime to apple's localized download
> pages (could be implemented to the current localized wwp pages very
> fast I think), like
>
> http://www.apple.com/de/quicktime/download/ (German)
> http://www.apple.com/fr/quicktime/download/ (French)
> http://www.apple.com/es/quicktime/download/ (Spanish)
>
>
> Christian
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:20:43 +0200
> From: Hans Nyberg <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
>
>
> On 5/10-2005, at 10.48, christian stehle wrote:
>
> > And provide a download link of Quicktime to apple's localized download
> > pages (could be implemented to the current localized wwp pages very
> > fast I think), like
> >
> > http://www.apple.com/de/quicktime/download/ (German)
> > http://www.apple.com/fr/quicktime/download/ (French)
> > http://www.apple.com/es/quicktime/download/ (Spanish)
>
> Only the french download page is in French.
> Just the headline is in German and Spanish
>
> Same for the standalone player.
>
> I could perhaps see an idea in it if we had a lot of japanese viewers
> I believe french and japanese are the only download pages which uses
> local language.
> http://www.apple.com/jp/quicktime/download/standalone.html
>
> Hans
>
>
> Hans Nyberg
> commercial photographer
> hans nyberg fotografi
> hasselvej 6 DK-8550 ryomgaard denmark
> <http://www.hans-nyberg.dk>
> <http://www.qtvr.dk>
>
> <http://www.panoramas.dk> Panoramas.dk - Features Fullscreen QTVR
> email: #removed#
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:35:03 +0100
> From: Richard Crowest <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: optimal viewer size
>
> Like Bruce, I've been following the debate about resolution and viewer size
> with interest, but also with a bit of confusion. Troy, I have a suspicion
> that what you're striving for is something that you can't actually achieve.
> I'll explain why I think that, but there are many people on the list who
> know a darn site more about this whole subject than I do, so please correct
> any mistakes or invalid assumptions I make.
>
> Troy, in your message on 29 September you said:
>
> > Now, "if" I wanted to keep the maximum angular resolution my lens can
> > produce the Equirectangular Spherical image would need to be 7272
> > wide. Quite large.
> >
> > So now I have this 4000x2000 Equirectangular Spherical image and I
> > want to display it at the images angular resolution of 11.1
>
> From my point of view, I think you're looking at this problem back to front.
> For example, if I print a digital photo, I don't start by thinking "how big
> do I need to print this to reproduce every pixel in the image file?".
> Instead, I think "how high do I need the resolution of the image file to be
> to print a good quality image at the size I want?". With panoramas, what I
> want to achieve is a high-quality rendering of the panorama at the field of
> view that gives a pleasing framing of the image and at the window size I'm
> trying to achieve.
>
> In both these cases, it's surely always best to start with as much
> resolution as (a) your equipment will produce and (b) you can process
> without causing your computer to grind to an inelegant halt.
>
> Bear in mind that, when viewing a panorama, the original image has already
> been through a minimum of two remappings (three if you're using a cubic QTVR
> projection):
>
> 1) The original photo is remapped to remove the lens distortion and enable
> it to be stitched into a cylindrical or equirectangular image.
>
> 2) The cylinder (or equirectangular image in PTViewer, for example) is
> projected onto a virtual 3-D cylinder (or sphere) within the frame of the
> viewer.
>
> 3) If you use cubic QTVR, the equirectangular image is first remapped onto
> the six cube faces, and these images are mapped onto a virtual 3-D cube in
> the viewer. (It would be possible to avoid this extra step if you could
> shoot two 180-degree fisheye images perfectly in line, then process them
> with Ken Turkowski's DeFish and join the sides together, but alas I haven't
> found a pano head that's up to that job yet...)
>
> All of these remappings involve interpolation (by which I mean changing the
> pixel map such that some of the new pixels will be based on an average of
> some of the old ones). The original pixels you shot with your digital camera
> never make it to the viewer window.
>
> Now, think about looking at a cylindrical QTVR. The part in the centre of
> the frame is parallel to you, so if the viewer was displaying the same
> angular resolution as the cylindrical image, you would indeed have a 1:1
> pixel ratio in the very centre of the viewer. But as you move towards the
> edges, the cylinder is curving around you, so you're effectively looking at
> the image at an angle. There's remapping and interpolation going on, though
> you're not aware of it. The only way to avoid this is to turn off the QTVR
> correction, in which case you lose any sense of space, and you're just
> scrolling a flat photograph behind the viewer frame.
>
> It's even easier to envisage the situation with a cubic QTVR. If you have
> one of the cube faces parallel to you, fine. But now pan through 45 degrees
> - you're looking into a corner of the cube, so the images you're seeing are
> both at 45 degrees to you, and being heavily remapped and interpolated.
>
> Ken, in your message on 2 October you said:
>
> > These make it easier to determine an "optimum" presentation, when used
> > in conjunction with the other calculators. In particular, if you
> > deteRmine the angular resolution of a panorama with
> > http://www.worldserver.com/turk/quicktimevr/panores.html#PanoRes
> > you can use this to help determine the window height or FOV so that the
> > resolution of the window equals that of the panorama (i.e. 1:1
> > zooming).
>
> I notice you put the word "optimum" in inverted commas. Would I be right in
> thinking that you mean the optimum balance between image quality and file
> size - i.e. a view that presents all the detail available in the source
> image, but if you were to zoom in you'd force the QTVR system to interpolate
> pixels that aren't there in the original? In other words, you can use this
> calculator to choose the maximum window size or minimum FOV for your
> panorama that will make use of the image data you have available.
>
> What I'm getting at in all this is that I've never created a QTVR that looks
> great at one zoom setting, but then suddenly degrades if I zoom OUT a bit.
> In fact, I find higher resolution panos tend to look better while panning -
> they seem to suffer less from the curved lines in the viewer window caused
> by the remapping, but that's only my subjective opinion.
>
> Finally, I think I'm arguing for getting as much resolution as you can into
> the permitted file size. Then choose the field of view that gives you the
> best sense of 'being there'. If there's 'spare' resolution in the image, the
> viewer will be able to zoom in, but the default view won't suffer.
>
> I'm no expert, but I've tried to set things out as they seem to make sense
> to me. Now dive in and put me straight!
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 10:56:50 -0000
> From: "christian stehle" <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Inside a Telescope
>
> Hi Gerardo,
>
> hmm, your server may be down?
>
> Christian
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 11:45:58 -0000
> From: "gerardoant" <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Inside a Telescope
>
> Hola Christian:
>
> yes, power failure all night long...
> just starting all the machines right now...
> hope you can see the pano...
>
> Saludos, Gerardo
>
> --- In #removed#, "christian stehle" <#removed#> wrote:
> > Hi Gerardo,
> >
> > hmm, your server may be down?
> >
> > Christian
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 16:01:22 -0000
> From: "Richard Crowest" <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Inside a Telescope; plus: please check my contribution
>
> --- In #removed#, Gerardo S?nchez <#removed#> wrote:
> > Here is my contribution: "Inside a Telescope"
> >
> > http://www.cida.ve/~gerardo/qtvr/energia/energia.html
>
> Amazing. Quite apart from the quality of the photography, there's that
> tantalizing "how did he do that" aspect to the whole thing. How did
> you light it, Gerardo?
>
> I love the metalwork - despite the high-tech CCDs, the battered metal
> gives it the air of something from a 1950s sci-fi movie.
>
> I've finalised my contribution now - if anyone has a chance to look at
> it, could they confirm that the sound is working for them? There are
> four hotspots that trigger sounds when clicked - some of the sounds
> are fairly quiet. Small and full-screen versions are both on my site,
> to save the prep server:
>
> http://corvidae.co.uk/panoramas/fudge.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 10:55:40 -0700
> From: "Bo" <#removed#>
> Subject: Password Retrival
>
> Guys, (maybe Marcus in particular?)
>
> For some reason I seem to forget my user Id and password between each shoot,
> is there a simple way to retrive this...?
>
> Sincerely Bo Lorentzen
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2005 21:57:48 +0200
> From: Bernhard Vogl <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Inside a Telescope
>
> Hello Gerardo
>
> This is an amazing view. Would you like to tell something about the
> diameter of the tube where you shot the pano? It looks as if you used a
> flash inside - no problems for the mounted CCD's?
>
> Best regards
> Bernhard
>
> Gerardo S?nchez wrote:
>
> >http://www.cida.ve/~gerardo/qtvr/energia/energia.html
> >
> >(It is at the WWP preparation server too)
> >
> >Saludos, Gerardo
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 18:03:01 -0700
> From: G. Donald Bain <#removed#>
> Subject: back again
>
> Hello everyone. I returned from my field trip late Sunday night, and
> have since been catching up on work (and sleep).
>
> I am glad to see that the WWP is flying very well on auto-pilot. Thanks
> to everyone who has helped answer questions and solve problems.
>
> Three more days to prepare your panorama and submit to the site. Be
> sure to write a good caption explaining what, where, and why, and if
> necessary how it relates to the theme of "energy".
>
> Also, make a fullscreen version if you possibly can.
>
> Don
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:51:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: yuval levy <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
>
> --- christian stehle <#removed#> wrote:
> > It would be ok to have an international english
> > version and then one
> > additional version in the photographer's native
> > language (as option only maybe).
> >
> > I think that it is also useful to link to the
> > localized Quicktime
> > Download pages instead to the english version only .
> >
> > What do you think?
>
>
> Hi Christian,
>
> from the replies I read to your request it seems that
> everybody focused only on the QuickTime download
> page...
>
> I think proper localization would be an asset, but it
> requires careful thinking/planning and a lot of
> sleepless nights for Markus. Site reengineering.
>
> Localization means the user interface (navigation,
> explanations, etc.) in multiple languages. The default
> language should be auto-negotiated by the webserver (I
> assume it is Apache) based on the HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
> that is supported by most if not all current browsers,
> with a default language English. Do not use IP
> addresses / geolocation to determine language, it will
> only irritate the viewer.
>
>
> So far for the easy part. The difficult part is a
> database re-engineering on the prep server: each text
> field should be attached with a language code and
> rather than having just one text field, the
> photographer should have one mandated (English) and
> one or more additionals in whatever language he or she
> wants to write. Then the prep server could generate
> multiple localized versions of the wwp site, making
> use of the default page there where the language has
> not been provided by the photographer.
>
> Additionally, from a usability perspective, a
> "perpendicular links" among sites of these localized
> versions should be added, i.e. link from a page in
> English to its translation in the other languages.
>
> Since the wwp production server is static, all of
> these pages would have to be generated and stored, so
> add one additional language = double the size of the
> HTML files. Does the server have the ressources for
> that?
>
> Probably it is possible to reuse the same media files
> (QuickTimes, thumbnails and other images, sound) for
> all languages. If not, this will add additional
> requirements and probably also manual work, which
> should be avoided. Some compromise will be required.
>
> Is a localzation effort important? in my opinion, to
> be truly _worldwide_ yes. I guess in your opinion too.
> But based on the replies to this thread so far, it
> seems to me that there is not much interest for the
> topic. Or maybe everybody is just busy finalizing
> their entries?
>
> Yuv
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
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>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 17:29:17 -0700
> From: Uri Cogan <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
>
> Yuval wrote:
>
> >So far for the easy part. The difficult part is a
> >database re-engineering on the prep server: each text
> >field should be attached with a language code and
> >rather than having just one text field, the
> >photographer should have one mandated (English) and
> >one or more additionals in whatever language he or she
> >wants to write. Then the prep server could generate
> >multiple localized versions of the wwp site, making
> >use of the default page there where the language has
> >not been provided by the photographer.
>
> Yes, but the whole thing can become a can of worms when it comes to
> non-European languages, particularly those that go right-to-left like
> Hebrew and Arabic. For Hebrew for example there exist several
> encoding schemes, but some browser/platform combinations can't
> display the language at all. Microsoft's Internet Explorer on the Mac
> for instance, will not display Hebrew no matter what character
> encoding is used.
>
> When creating certain web pages I found it useful to display all
> Hebrew text as graphics, but this approach may not be suitable for
> complex pages, and re-editing such text becomes impossible.
> --
> Uri Cogan
> http://www.uricogan.com
>
> Quidquid latine dictum sit, profundum viditur
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 02:32:14 +0200
> From: Hans Nyberg <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: WWP Feature Request: Localization
>
>
> On 6/10-2005, at 1.51, yuval levy wrote:
>
> > --- christian stehle <#removed#> wrote:
> >> It would be ok to have an international english
> >> version and then one
> >> additional version in the photographer's native
> >> language (as option only maybe).
> >>
> >> I think that it is also useful to link to the
> >> localized Quicktime
> >> Download pages instead to the english version only .
>
> Sorry but with so many languages involved I think this is a very
> difficult issue.
>
> If you want your own page to be also in your own language why do you
> not make one on your own site.
> Or write the caption short in both languages.
> I am sure no one has anything against that.
>
> What can be of importance for you is to use keywords in your own
> language in the title.
> I have used that since WWP started. This can put you at the top of
> Google.
> For example you can find my bridge as No 1 for "Lang?-broerne"
> And the marketplace as No 2 for "Str?get Aarhus"
>
> My first is Posk?r Stenhus and it is also NO 1.
> And 2 and 3 and 4
> because I crossslink it to my own site.
>
> Hans
>
>
> Hans Nyberg
> commercial photographer
> hans nyberg fotografi
> hasselvej 6 DK-8550 ryomgaard denmark
> <http://www.hans-nyberg.dk>
> <http://www.qtvr.dk>
>
> <http://www.panoramas.dk> Panoramas.dk - Features Fullscreen QTVR
> email: #removed#
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 02:18:56 -0000
> From: "gerardoant" <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Inside a Telescope
>
> Hi again...
>
> > tantalizing "how did he do that" aspect to the whole thing. How did
> > you light it, Gerardo?
>
> As you can image there are no lights inside the telescope!
> When you close the door there is really dark in there.
> I used a hand-held lamp behind the camera with a 60 wats
> light bulb (I like the "warm Sun" feeling it has). The problem
> here is I need to be sure every shadow has a coincidence
> at the same place for every shoot.
>
> > I love the metalwork - despite the high-tech CCDs, the battered
> metal gives it the air of something from a 1950s sci-fi movie.
>
> Yes, it is!! Telescope was build in 1955 by Askania in
> Germany. Optics is still "best of the best", the optic
> detector for that time was glass photographic plates
> 45 centimeters long.
>
> > Would you like to tell something about the
> > diameter of the tube where you shot the pano?
>
> The aperture of the telescope is 1 meter, the mirror
> is 1.5 meter.. so maybe around 1.20 (?) at the place
> where the tripode was. You can be inside... as the
> "Hunchback of Notre Dame" but you can be...
> The big problem was that the telescope, at rest position,
> is not horizontal it is something as 15? inclined, so keep
> the tripode stand there and move the camera by
> hand in the mirror-camera plane direction was
> not easy...
>
> >It looks as if you used a
> > flash inside - no problems for the mounted CCD's?
>
> No flash... any how in that case it is not
> bad for the CCDs... If the camera is "on" and you
> light in there you only need be sure you will make a
> good CCDs clear out (several bias frames)
> before any astronomic image.
>
>
> > Gerardo S?nchez wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.cida.ve/~gerardo/qtvr/energia/energia.html
> > >
> > >(It is at the WWP preparation server too)
> > >
> > >Saludos, Gerardo
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 05:37:03 -0000
> From: "northwest_omnipresence" <#removed#>
> Subject: Best of?
>
> I am jumping the gun here, i know, but participating in this event has
> me feeling giddy, and now I see that the December Solstice event is a
> best of 2005.
>
> I know that details will eventually be posted (as was the case with
> this event, and i am sure as with the others) on the wwp website,
> but "best of" conveys to me a sense of looking back at past events.
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 07:54:11 +0200
> From: Thomas Mottl <#removed#>
> Subject: Re: Best of?
>
> Your best QTVR out of 2005, your theme, your choice, so there is no
> looking back at past events
> You must have taken part at one wwp event to qualify for the best of
> 2005
> Thomas
>
> On 06.10.2005, at 07:37, northwest_omnipresence wrote:
>
> > I am jumping the gun here, i know, but participating in this event has
> > me feeling giddy, and now I see that the December Solstice event is a
> > best of 2005.
> >
> > I know that details will eventually be posted (as was the case with
> > this event, and i am sure as with the others) on the wwp website,
> > but "best of" conveys to me a sense of looking back at past events.
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> > The World-Wide Panorama
> >
> > For more information:
> > -Visit the web site at http://GeoImages.Berkeley.edu/wwp.html
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> ------
> The World-Wide Panorama
>
> For more information:
> -Visit the web site at http://GeoImages.Berkeley.edu/wwp.html
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