wwp@yahoogroups.com:
Re: Which stitching software to choose ? ????
yuval_levy 2009-Nov-04 00:10:00
Hi John,
Google's Summer of Code specifically excludes projects such as installers or documentation. Even if they were included, they are competing for attention and funding with other tasks. When we allocate the resources that Google, Nodal Ninja, and Agnos gave us (75.000$ and a few dozens pano heads over 3 years) we have an order of priorities that may not be the same one as Joe Blow's. And there is a reason why Google gives the money to us, not to Joe Blow.
Google funds the development of new features. We've used the sponsorship of the pano head manufacturers to pay for integration of the new features into the main codeline.
It is not that Joe Blow does not have choices. In fact, he has five very legitimate choices, with many variations:
1. if there is no official installer on Hugin's website, he can google for an unofficial installer.
2. if he is unlucky with the installers found, he can follow the instruction and build one himself - ideally contributing his byproduct back to the general public.
3. he can wait for somebody else to do it. of course if every Windows user does the same, the wait can be very long.
4. he can hire somebody to do it. Bounties are popular in the Open Source world. We recently had a few bounties offered on Hugin [0].
5. he can buy a commercial installer for an alternative software.
Joe Blow, may or may not get a free lunch, but he definitely can't expect it. An expecting / demanding attitude is guaranteed to make the Open Source experience a bad one. When I recognize an expecting attitude, I immediately recommend an Autopano Pro license. Everybody will be happy.
When I sit at the computer and decide to contribute to Hugin, I am giving up the opportunity to do other things. Nobody has the right to tell me what to do on my free time, not even my wife.
The list of things to do for Hugin is never ending. When I choose something from that list, it is at the expenses of other things on that list. What I like about Open Source is that there is no boss.
Everybody contributes what they want, and if their contribution makes sense others will follow.
I did contribute the 0.7.0 Windows installer. Others have followed, and indeed the 0.7.0 installer on Hugin's website came from them, not for me. I consider my work a success when it lives beyond me, in the work of others.
Unfortunately in recent years nobody has brought up enough time / dedication to produce an installer of a quality that can be put on Hugin's website as official installer download. That's not lack of skill, it is just a daunting task. And if somebody thinks that putting together a good quality installer is just a couple of hours, they're welcome to try. The information is all available.
The 0.7.0 was part of my personal path on the learning curve. I personally moved on to other tasks that I find more attractive than the painful, long, tedious work of quality assurance that makes the difference between a quick self-build and a release-grade installer.
I moved almost completely away from Windows, and when I fire up my Windows partition it is to edit movies of my son so that his family in Europe can see him, not to produce an installer for Joe Blow.
If the byproduct of my activity is helpful to others, good for them. If it is not, tough luck. That's not arrogance, it's allocation of scarce resources. Is it arrogant to allocate my resources to my family, rather than to Joe Blow?
The tip jar [1] has been there forever. It seems that Joe Blow is not interested to contribute. Hugin already had more than one million downloads from Sourceforge (most of them Windows and OSX users. Linux users get it from their distribution's software repositories where community volunteers build their installers).
The numbers are pretty daunting. You can see what we did with 75.000$ of Google money over three years. If 1% of users (assuming user=download) would make a donation of 2.50$/year we could double the effort funded by Google. That's less than a cup of coffee at Starbucks (I think, I am no coffee drinker). Imagine what we could do if Joe Blow was not in for a free ride, but rather for a reasonable one (say: donate 25$/year, e.g. every time he renews his PTgui Pro license to get the latest PTgui features).
Sourceforge has recently introduced rating and reviews of projects on their SF homepage [2]. I don't think much of this since anonymous rating/reviews are possible. We had 105 reviews, with a Stalinian approval rating of 92%. Isn't that amazing, that with an average 900 downloads per day so little Joe Blows even butter to hit on a thumb up or thumb down icon?
Users of PTgui and Autopano Pro benefit from Hugin too. Call it competitive pressure. The Open Source developers around Hugin/Panotools/Enblend have been the first to introduce HDR stitching; enfuse; photometric adjustment; GPU accelerated blending and stitching (just to name a few).
We're always welcoming user input and ideas. The basis for negotiation is give and don't expect anything back. It's the give-economy vs. take-economy.
In the take-economy, Microsoft (for example) puts a price tag and takes the money from you in exchange for its product on the table. You can choose to buy or not.
In the give-economy, you put something on the table, which can be money or it can be another contribution, and the general public decides whether it accepts your contribution or not.
In both cases, it's a free market. Some can play both sides. Others limit themselves, by choice or by ignorance, to only one side. Nobody can legally force the other party into a deal it does not want. Not even Joe Blow.
Yuv
[0] http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/701b37f8c2...
[1] http://sourceforge.net/project/project_donations.php?group_id=77506
[2] http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/
--- In #removed#, John Riley <johnriley@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds like a good job for one of the Google Summer of Code kids 8-)
> Or try putting a tip jar on the front page to pay someone to do it?
> Windows AND Mac too, please ;-)
>
> BTW - after a few clicks, I did find the binaries for the latest on
> Harry van der Wolf's site.
>
> John
>
> John Riley
> johnriley@...
> (h)864-461-3504
> (c)864-431-7075
> (w)864-503-5775
>
> On Nov 3, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bruno Postle wrote:
>
> > What the website is saying is that there won't be a new Windows
> > installer until somebody volunteers or is paid to do it.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>