wwp@yahoogroups.com:
Re: Which stitching software to choose ? ????
John Riley 2009-Nov-04 02:29:00
Hi Yuval,
I can't go on at length, but it is good to hear from you. I hope you
didn't take my posting as criticism rather than a helpful suggestion.
You do seem to worry that folks are looking for a "free ride", so they
should have to earn the use of the software through sweat equity. I
am only saying that Hugin will be marginalized if Joe or Josephine
Blow have to go through what can be a maddening process (it sure was
for me when I last tried to get Hugin compiled a year or two ago.
Maybe I am stupid, LOL, and YMMV.) Making it more accessible would
increase its visibility, which could get more people interested in
contributing - a self-reinforcing cycle. It doesn't seem unusual for
open-source projects to have binaries available.
In any case, the purpose of my post was to praise Hugin. I suggested
making a concerted effort to create binaries because I think it
deserves a much wider audience than those who are willing and/or able
to build it from source. I can appreciate not having the equipment
necessary to build a binary. Thanks for letting me know about the
exclusion of creating installers for GSOC workers. I wouldn't have
guessed that to be the case.
PS - I took my huge print from the Libre Graphics meeting with me to
the IVRPA/IAPP meeting in Albuquerque. I showed it as part of my talk
and left it up as part of the exhibition. I think people liked the
look of the pano printed on canvas. Thanks again for all your hard
work in organizing the prints for the LG meeting!
Cheers,
John
John Riley
#removed#
(h)864-461-3504
(c)864-431-7075
(w)864-503-5775
On Nov 3, 2009, at 7:10 PM, yuval_levy wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Google's Summer of Code specifically excludes projects such as
> installers or documentation. Even if they were included, they are
> competing for attention and funding with other tasks. When we
> allocate the resources that Google, Nodal Ninja, and Agnos gave us
> (75.000$ and a few dozens pano heads over 3 years) we have an order
> of priorities that may not be the same one as Joe Blow's. And there
> is a reason why Google gives the money to us, not to Joe Blow.
>
> Google funds the development of new features. We've used the
> sponsorship of the pano head manufacturers to pay for integration of
> the new features into the main codeline.
>
> It is not that Joe Blow does not have choices. In fact, he has five
> very legitimate choices, with many variations:
> 1. if there is no official installer on Hugin's website, he can
> google for an unofficial installer.
> 2. if he is unlucky with the installers found, he can follow the
> instruction and build one himself - ideally contributing his
> byproduct back to the general public.
> 3. he can wait for somebody else to do it. of course if every
> Windows user does the same, the wait can be very long.
> 4. he can hire somebody to do it. Bounties are popular in the Open
> Source world. We recently had a few bounties offered on Hugin [0].
> 5. he can buy a commercial installer for an alternative software.
>
> Joe Blow, may or may not get a free lunch, but he definitely can't
> expect it. An expecting / demanding attitude is guaranteed to make
> the Open Source experience a bad one. When I recognize an expecting
> attitude, I immediately recommend an Autopano Pro license. Everybody
> will be happy.
>
> When I sit at the computer and decide to contribute to Hugin, I am
> giving up the opportunity to do other things. Nobody has the right
> to tell me what to do on my free time, not even my wife.
>
> The list of things to do for Hugin is never ending. When I choose
> something from that list, it is at the expenses of other things on
> that list. What I like about Open Source is that there is no boss.
>
> Everybody contributes what they want, and if their contribution
> makes sense others will follow.
>
> I did contribute the 0.7.0 Windows installer. Others have followed,
> and indeed the 0.7.0 installer on Hugin's website came from them,
> not for me. I consider my work a success when it lives beyond me, in
> the work of others.
>
> Unfortunately in recent years nobody has brought up enough time /
> dedication to produce an installer of a quality that can be put on
> Hugin's website as official installer download. That's not lack of
> skill, it is just a daunting task. And if somebody thinks that
> putting together a good quality installer is just a couple of hours,
> they're welcome to try. The information is all available.
>
> The 0.7.0 was part of my personal path on the learning curve. I
> personally moved on to other tasks that I find more attractive than
> the painful, long, tedious work of quality assurance that makes the
> difference between a quick self-build and a release-grade installer.
>
> I moved almost completely away from Windows, and when I fire up my
> Windows partition it is to edit movies of my son so that his family
> in Europe can see him, not to produce an installer for Joe Blow.
>
> If the byproduct of my activity is helpful to others, good for them.
> If it is not, tough luck. That's not arrogance, it's allocation of
> scarce resources. Is it arrogant to allocate my resources to my
> family, rather than to Joe Blow?
>
> The tip jar [1] has been there forever. It seems that Joe Blow is
> not interested to contribute. Hugin already had more than one
> million downloads from Sourceforge (most of them Windows and OSX
> users. Linux users get it from their distribution's software
> repositories where community volunteers build their installers).
>
> The numbers are pretty daunting. You can see what we did with
> 75.000$ of Google money over three years. If 1% of users (assuming
> user=download) would make a donation of 2.50$/year we could double
> the effort funded by Google. That's less than a cup of coffee at
> Starbucks (I think, I am no coffee drinker). Imagine what we could
> do if Joe Blow was not in for a free ride, but rather for a
> reasonable one (say: donate 25$/year, e.g. every time he renews his
> PTgui Pro license to get the latest PTgui features).
>
> Sourceforge has recently introduced rating and reviews of projects
> on their SF homepage [2]. I don't think much of this since anonymous
> rating/reviews are possible. We had 105 reviews, with a Stalinian
> approval rating of 92%. Isn't that amazing, that with an average 900
> downloads per day so little Joe Blows even butter to hit on a thumb
> up or thumb down icon?
>
> Users of PTgui and Autopano Pro benefit from Hugin too. Call it
> competitive pressure. The Open Source developers around Hugin/
> Panotools/Enblend have been the first to introduce HDR stitching;
> enfuse; photometric adjustment; GPU accelerated blending and
> stitching (just to name a few).
>
> We're always welcoming user input and ideas. The basis for
> negotiation is give and don't expect anything back. It's the give-
> economy vs. take-economy.
>
> In the take-economy, Microsoft (for example) puts a price tag and
> takes the money from you in exchange for its product on the table.
> You can choose to buy or not.
>
> In the give-economy, you put something on the table, which can be
> money or it can be another contribution, and the general public
> decides whether it accepts your contribution or not.
>
> In both cases, it's a free market. Some can play both sides. Others
> limit themselves, by choice or by ignorance, to only one side.
> Nobody can legally force the other party into a deal it does not
> want. Not even Joe Blow.
>
> Yuv
>
>
> [0] http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx/browse_thread/thread/701b37f8c2...
>
> [1] http://sourceforge.net/project/project_donations.php?
> group_id=77506
>
> [2] http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/
>
> --- In #removed#, John Riley <johnriley@...> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like a good job for one of the Google Summer of Code kids 8-)
> > Or try putting a tip jar on the front page to pay someone to do it?
> > Windows AND Mac too, please ;-)
> >
> > BTW - after a few clicks, I did find the binaries for the latest on
> > Harry van der Wolf's site.
> >
> > John
> >
> > John Riley
> > johnriley@...
> > (h)864-461-3504
> > (c)864-431-7075
> > (w)864-503-5775
> >
> > On Nov 3, 2009, at 3:46 PM, Bruno Postle wrote:
> >
> > > What the website is saying is that there won't be a new Windows
> > > installer until somebody volunteers or is paid to do it.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]